An Interview with the Top Three Winners
2023 North American Junior Championships
IM Carissa Yip
FM Erick Zhao
FM Daniel Xu
Watch the full interview video!
IM Carissa Yip, the winner of the 2021 and 2023 U.S. Women’s Chess Championship, earned her first GM norm at the 2023 North American Junior Championships. What did she think about her games? How did she win the Championships?
An Interview with the Top Three Winners
By FM Erick Zhao and FM Arthur Xu
January 20, 2024
Erick: Hi Carissa and Daniel, first of all, Happy 2024, and thank you so much for agreeing to join us on this Chess4Unity interview. Also, congratulations for getting the first and third place titles at the U20 North American Junior Chess Championships. How have you been doing since then? Have you guys played in any new tournaments?
Daniel: After the tournament, I’ve been more or less inactive – I’ve been spending some time, but I’ve shifted to focus more on other activities, like school and other things, because there aren’t any important tournaments upcoming, so I’ve been spending my time more on other things.
Carissa: I took a bit of a brief break and then went to play in the Pan-Ams Collegiate for Stanford’s A Team. We ended up finishing pretty well.
Arthur: Oh, that’s cool. How did you do individually?
Carissa: It was like 6 rounds, and I sat out for one round. I think I got 3.5/5, hopefully gaining rating, but I think it’s pretty close to like, +1, or something.
Arthur: What board did you play?
Carissa: Oh… we have a grandmaster here, he should be a GM now, he got his last norm recently (Bryce Tiglon, he’s like from Seattle). So, he was on board 1, but the problem was he got sick at the beginning of the tournament, and then I played board 1 for pretty much all of the tournament except the last two rounds.
Arthur: Oh wow. 3.5/5 on board one is impressive.
Erick: Then you probably played some GM’s as well?
Carissa: Yeah… I played one GM, we drew. We played Texas Tech, and I lost to some 2400. I won the rest of my games, so… it was good.
Erick: That’s pretty good.
Arthur: Nice. So… Erick and I, for Chess for Unity, are just going to ask you a few questions about the tournament (2023 North American Junior U20 Championships). Thanks again for coming. So… I guess I’ll start with Carissa. What were your thoughts and emotions as you realized you were about to win your last game, and to win the tournament?
Carissa: Uh.. yeah, sorry Daniel. So… I guess it was an interesting tournament to begin with, since I lost my first round, and after I lost my first round I kind of just dropped all my expectations I had for this tournament as the top seed, and I was like, I’m pretty out of form, and probably not going to win, but at least I can try to win and hopefully gain some rating back. So, I keep playing, and I keep winning my games, and I start playing stronger players, I’m still winning, and then it comes to a point where me and Daniel are like facing off in the last round, and I think we had the same number of points then, and the problem was that I knew I couldn’t really take a draw because otherwise my tiebreaks would be really bad.
You know, I felt Ok about it, because the tournament came down to me needing to win the last game, which I thought was doable, but in the opening I mixed up my lines and got into a really sad position, and I was not happy at all and I was spending a lot of time figuring out what to do in the middle game – and I think I settled on this strategy where I was just waiting – waiting and seeing what was going to happen because – I’m not sure if you remember, Daniel, but I basically had no viable plans, so I figured that I would let you dictate the course of the position up until there came a point where I can hopefully have a counterstrike once things opened up a bit more, so I think I got my chance with this Nxd5 move that I surprised you with, and even then, I spent a long time on it but I saw the move pretty quickly, but the problem was – it still looked pretty equalize, but I figured I had to go for it. And there’re still definitely chances for you to mess up a bit. And yeah, I think there’s just like a variety of ways to go into a rook endgame where I’m probably pushing, but it’s just difficult to win.
But you ended up getting into a lot of time pressure. And I think you chose the wrong endgame to go into. And so once we entered the endgame, I knew that it was just very good for me. And yeah, I felt pretty good about the position. I felt good about the game. And overall, I was like this tournament was not a great tournament for me. But you know, I got the job done. So that’s what matters.
IM Carisa Yip lost the first round. But she won the following Eight games! How did she bounce back?
“…I was not happy at all and I was spending a lot of time figuring out what to do in the middle game – and I think I settled on this strategy where I was just waiting – waiting and seeing what was going to happen…”
Erick: That’s good to hear! Uh, I know that this might not be the best memory, but Daniel, do you have any thoughts on that last game you played with Carissa?
Daniel: Yeah, I definitely do. Like, I feel like I spent a lot of time preparing and like spending all my life, you know, all night just trying to work for this one game because it has a lot at stake. Like I knew the importance of this game. And so it’s a really memorable game. Yeah, like I also learned a lot of lessons from it. And during the game, I thought like out of the opening, I managed to gain this really comfortable position, where I was in the driver’s seat, I can choose what path and like I pretty much could secure a draw if I didn’t push for to my reason, like after some point, Carissa gave me a lot of options. And then I started like, getting over excited about what I could do. And so I ended up settling for this plan where I would try to expand on the king side quickly and go for some kind of quick attack. Um, I thought it was like sound, but I completely missed this Nxd5. I think it was that tactic.
Overall, I feel like I was a bit in a rush, like I didn’t look at the big picture. If I stepped back and looked at the game from a different angle, maybe I would have realized that this was not the right thing to do. Like, maybe just staying like continuing to keep the positions like structure and everything, I would eventually be able to like, hold it or maybe even like if things were to go in like my favor, I could be in like I could win. But I feel like the way I played it was way too hurried and ended up costing me the game. And so I feel like it’s a deserved loss, but there’s still a lot to gain from it. I was actually looking at the game.
Erick: Okay, since you both are like college students or high school students, and you’ve been studying at Stanford, which I know gives a lot of homework and stuff. How do you like balance chess and studying and extracurriculars?
Carissa: Yeah, that’s a great question. Um, definitely, I would say the balance was a lot harder for me in high school. And I think in college, there’s a lot more flexibility, like, let’s say, for example, with going to play tournaments, it was actually really difficult to take time off of classes. But in college, professors are super flexible, you just have to like, reach out with them about tournaments and stuff. So, it’s easier for me to take, like, let’s take a couple days off to play some sort of five-day norm tournament, or something along those lines. Whereas it just wasn’t very feasible in high school.
I would say with like, in terms of studying, and keeping up to date with the game and all that’s just, it’s really hard for me to find time to do that. And definitely kind of dropped it off a little bit since I think school started back up. But generally, I just try and make time during, you know, breaks, holidays, that sort of thing. If I have a bit of free time, I’ll try to, you know, keep up with the latest tournaments, just to make sure that I don’t slip too much. And so when I sort of get back into things, which is typically, you know, around summertime, for a couple months, I’ll just play nonstop. Yeah, it takes a little bit of warming up. But eventually, I think I get there.
Daniel: Yeah, I think it’s pretty much the same situation for me. Like, even though I’m still in high school, I try to maximize my efficiency for chess, so I can gain as much as I want to during the time I have. And it’s also about doing homework and assignments, like quickly and effectively, which gives me more time to study chess and other extracurriculars that I want to do. And so this way, I can still continue like, improve my chess while maintaining good grades and stuff in school.
Arthur: Thanks for sharing. That was some good insight into how you kind of balance your extracurriculars. Now, next question I have for you guys is kind of on your playing style, because chess players are known for having kind of unique playing styles. And so, would you guys say that you have a playing style that you strive for or something that you think you identify with? And do you intentionally try to employ that style in every game?
Daniel: So, I feel like when like a year ago, or maybe a while back, when I was lower rated, right after the pandemic, like I didn’t really have a fixed playing style. So I kind of just went with the flow, just however the position went, I would go for – this ended up giving me a couple of strong with like wins – against grandmasters even – like I managed to play a really risky but like, in a complicated way where both sides would have an opportunity to win.
And this actually gave me a lot of rating. And it’s helped me a lot in getting the FIDE master title. But once I got to a certain level, I realized that this style would cost me too much if I were to lose an important game. And so I decided that I would have to start like, finding a better, more controllable and manageable style. And so I’ve been striving to play more positionally, and to take less risks and make less of these like play into more solid and less dynamic, maybe a bit more easy for me to control. And so nowadays, I’m just trying to move into this new style. And yeah, that’s how I’m like, moving on.
Carissa: Yeah, that’s a great answer. I’d say probably for me, my style hasn’t really changed much since I was a kid. So, I’ve always been a very, like, I think dynamically inclined player. So I’m into, you know, like sharp positions, open positions, that sort of thing. Yeah, I just think that’s like my stats, I do best at probably, you know, stuff like positional play, or like slow chess doesn’t come as naturally to me. So, yeah, I think I’m very much into, sort of a rapid sort of style, that’s where, you know, things change quickly.
Erick: Thank you for sharing that. Okay, Carissa, this question is for you. After losing your first round, how did you mentally adjust to stay focused for the next eight rounds? Because I know with some chess players, if they lose a round, they go on tilt, or like they lose the next few rounds. So, how are you able to adjust to play your best in the next few?
Carissa: Yeah, for sure. I would say that this is definitely a hard concept, like non-chess players to grasp almost, but I feel like losing a chess game just really, really sucks, like unbearably sometimes. I’m sure you guys can relate. And it’s a little silly, because you know, this is just a chess game, like, it’s never that serious. But it feels that serious, you know. And so for some reason, like after this game, I wasn’t really feeling that same way. And I think this was because, you know, I just thought like, I didn’t play a very good game. I’ve made many mistakes. I kind of just ended up getting outplayed by like the 1700, which is kind of embarrassing.
But that’s just how it was, I didn’t have good time management, that sort of thing. The position got too complex. And I just didn’t have that sort of time to figure it out. I think I get tilted a lot more when it’s a game that I felt that I should have won and I didn’t. And this game, I didn’t think that I had that many chances. So, yeah, I was definitely still very unhappy afterwards. But you know, I think I had a lot of time to sort of cool off afterwards. Because I lost my first game, you know, everyone else I played was not going to be super strong. And so, I don’t think I played like a 2200 until very late into the tournament. And that time to sort of process and like, move on helped a lot, I think.
Erick: Yeah, if I was like, losing an entire game and lost, it’s usually a lot less painful than if you’re like, winning and then you lost.
Carissa: Yeah, for sure.
Arthur: Thank you. Yeah. I have a question for Daniel. So, I saw in one of your games, your opponent flagged in a drawn position. What are your thoughts on that game?
Daniel: I think that was really lucky. But on the other hand, I feel like it kind of paid off – my strategy going into that game. I knew I was in the lead, I needed to play like, into a more solid position where I could control things. Like I mentioned with my style earlier. And so I knew he was going to be preparing for my open Sicilian, like this sharp Najdorf position where he would be very comfortable in. But knowing that I realized it was the perfect moment for me to surprise him with another opening. And so, I played the Alapin instead. I took inspiration also from a game that my friend played and actually like, he won, I think against Erick. And so playing that I thought, yeah, I could control the situation. And it ended up giving me a very drawn position. And he eventually over-pushed and gave me an opportunity to gain winning chances. And so I kept playing on. I wasn’t really expecting anything. But when he flagged, I thought this was kind of just the luck in my favor. Like, I think everything led up to this one moment where he flagged like, everything was going so well. So, I think that was kind of just like a byproduct of how everything was going.
Erick: Of course, luck is also a factor of chess tournaments. Okay, so, in this tournament, what was your most memorable game? And why? I think for Daniel, honestly, it’s that flagging. But yeah, if it’s anything else, what was your most memorable game?
Daniel: I think definitely the last game against Carissa, because that game was like a very important game for me. And so I’ll definitely remember that game for a very long time. It has a lot of meaning and value and things that I can gain from it.
Carissa: Yeah, I’d also say probably my last game against Daniel, although there, you know, there are a bunch to choose from. But, you know, everything was at stake in that game. And, you know, I think I didn’t play my best. But I think sometimes you can sit around and then people will make their own mistakes. Yeah, if that makes any sense. You know, sometimes I feel like I really have to push for a win in a position, but also, like, for you know, sometimes I should just stay chill and then let him make a mistake on his own.
Arthur: And just to add on, like an add-on question. So, as you guys were kind of preparing for that last round, I see you guys were probably under a lot of pressure knowing what was at stake. How do you guys kind of mentally prepare for that game where you’re in a situation where, you know, like it’s very important. So, what do you do to calm yourself?
Daniel: Yeah, so I haven’t been in this really difficult situation where everything is at stake. Like I’ve been playing a lot of chess, but I’ve never really had a situation where it’s so much with that state. And so this is kind of like a first time experience for me. Like I know Carissa definitely has played much bigger tournaments than I have with much more at stake. But for me, I feel like this was kind of like a first time experience in this sort of emotion. But I think I managed it quite well. Like I tried to prepare enough, but not to the point where I was too tired. I tried to keep my mind clear, sleep well, and just eat well and just feel okay. And just go into the game without expecting too much
Carissa: Yeah, that was great. I think that’s how it should be done. I also yeah, I didn’t spend too much time prepping. Yeah, eat well, sleep. Well, make sure you are physically, probably in your best shape. You know, you’re not too groggy during a game, that sort of thing. And overall, yeah, I just had to trust in my chess, and that everything would work out.
Erick: That’s nice to hear. In your opinion, what was your biggest strength and weakness in this tournament?
Carissa: Probably, I’d say maybe my biggest strength was just sort of the ability to like bounce back after, after that loss. And also, you know, I guess it’s tied into I think like my weakness during the tournament was definitely just that I was like not playing my best chess – I just wasn’t playing at my level. You know, there’d be like other games where I felt that I’d be, you know, much better, like totally winning, and I’d blow it a little bit, like slip up and allow a draw. You know, I was very lucky, very fortunate that my opponents never really saw it. And so I’d be able to get away with it.
Carissa: But yeah, I think it’s just like, knowing that I’m not playing well, and not letting that sort of thing affect me anyway. I think it’s probably an important skill to have to know that you’re, like, a little out of shape. You’re gonna have to try your best to get back into shape, but it’s very difficult to do with just like a couple days, you know. And so you just have to, you just have to like, try your best anyway.
Daniel: For me, I feel like my biggest strength in the tournament was probably controlling the situations – in round eight against Aaron, I managed to surprise him with the Alapin and get a really comfortable position. As well as the last round, I controlled it pretty well up until a certain point, as well as other games in the tournament. Like I never was in danger of throwing away anything, like just my ability to like play into these solid positions. I feel like it gave me a lot of points, even though they might have been lucky, like the flag.
But I feel like still, like this was a strength that I definitely did well in the tournament. But I think one of the weaknesses I had was like, unable to like, convert like a winning position or a better position. Like in one of the rounds, I think it was like round four or five, I was playing against like a 1900 up two pawns, like a completely dominating position, but I somehow just couldn’t find the win. Like I had so much – I could do so many things, but I couldn’t find a decisive way to win the game. And I almost ended up throwing the game away – he had an opportunity to hold a draw, but he missed it, which is lucky. And this is also true in round nine, where I just couldn’t find a way to continue on my advantage and I ended up losing that. So that was the weakness.
Arthur: Thank you. I do have an add-on question for Carissa. So, I know a lot of us, when we play tournaments, we don’t seem to notice we’re in bad shape. So, like, how do you kind of approach that? Because I know for me, especially when I’m in bad shape, I will play every move and I’ll overthink every move. Take 10 minutes – like am I playing the wrong move again? Am I doing something bad again? So how do you kind of combat that and bounce back?
Carissa: Um, yeah, I think it’s kind of interesting for me, because when I overthink, I end up just playing the wrong moves. And so, you know, when I’m not at the board, I’m trying my best to get back into shape, that sort of thing doing a bit of training here and there, when there’s some time between rounds. But when I’m at the board, I just kind of like, you know, I think psychologically – confidence is such a big thing. And you just have to trust in the moves that you’re playing. And so that’s sort of just what I tried to do. You know, good time management, feel confident, like to know that, you know, maybe I’m not in my best shape, but I should still be better than like 1900. You know, that sort of thing.
Erick: All right, as a final question, do you guys have any future chess goals? And what would you say to those aspiring chess players that are watching this interview?
Carissa: Yeah, so I’d say probably my main future goal right now is to get the GM title eventually. I’m not sure how long that’ll take. But you know, I have a few years left of college and hopefully I can do it before I graduate. For you know, aspiring chess players watching this interview. I don’t know, I would say, don’t be too hard on yourself. I think chess players have this thing where they put a lot of pressure on themselves unnecessarily. Maybe that’s just like a shared feature amongst a lot of people when you’re playing in a very stressful situation like this. But yeah, I think, again, just less pressure always just kind of makes your chess better anyway, in the long run.
Daniel: Yeah, I think my future goal or next goal would be to become an international master, hopefully before university starts. I think it’s definitely attainable if I work hard and like, play the right tournaments and everything. Yeah, and for future aspiring chess players, I think one interesting insight I would say is, every tournament you have kind of this bag of like luck, like how much of the luck you have in the bag sort of determines how well you’re playing a tournament. And so like, if you aren’t playing well, maybe it’s just that you haven’t used up your luck yet. And so don’t be too hard on yourself. Don’t beat yourself up. Just wait for the right moment. And maybe the luck – you’ll be able to use that luck in the next round. And so yeah.
Erick: All right. I really hope you guys achieve those goals very soon. Oh, well, I think that’s it. So thank you so much for taking the time to do this interview. We really appreciate it.
Daniel: Thank you.
Carissa: Thank you for having us.
Arthur: Yeah, thank you so much.
Game Review
FM Daniel Xu’s Reflection on his 2023 North American Junior Championships
By FM Daniel Xu
January 25, 2024
I am a FIDE Master from Canada. As a high school sophomore, I was thrilled to participate in the 2023 North American Junior Championships in the US. I hope that my reflection can provide valuable insights into your own games. Going into Round 5 with Black at the North American Junior Championships, I was hoping to achieve a dynamic game with winning chances for both sides. Expecting my opponent to play the Alapin, my hopes for such a game were not too optimistic.